when we filed this case, chris and sandy and jeff and paul had been together for ten years. now they have been together for almost 12, over 13 years. chris and sandy's twin boys were just entering high school. when this case is heard, they will be getting ready to graduate from high school. their moms deserve the same freedom to marry just as everyone else has in this country. >> isn't it true that when we had this in the court in the ninth in the appellate level, nobody came forward because nobody could come up with what you call a justification, some compelling reason. just chat on that point. you raised it. there's no compelling reason against giving the rights to people, the right to marriage. >> that's exactly right, chris. it's important to note in both of these cases, the united states government has refused to defend doma, the federal law that's now before this court, and when we filed the case right here in california, as one has to do, we sued the governor at the time, which was arnold schwarzenegger and our attorney general at the time, which was jerry brown, the